Episode 21 Transcript- Gender Stuff

Megan: Welcome to Queers Next Door
Leigh: with your hosts Leigh and Megan.

M: We take the topics you care about:
L: sex, relationships, feminism, kink, social justice, and entertainment,
M: and look at them through a queer as fuck lens.
L: Find us on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook at Queers Next Door
M: and make sure to follow the blog at queersnextdoor.com.

L: Cheers, queers!!

L: Hi Megan.

M: Hi Leigh.

L: How are you?
M: (laughs)
L: What have you been doing this week to take care of yourself?

M: I’m doing okay. This week, I guess my self-care has been sex.

L: Nice.

M: Yeah. And I have a kind of funny story about it because my partner and I rarely use toys. We just don’t.

L: Mmhm.

M: And so last night I had the bright idea of like, let’s use a vibrator. And so I went- We keep everything in like this sliding bed frame we have that we’re supposed to use for our bed in the studio but we don’t.

L: Uh huh.

M: So it’s just- You pull it out and it’s like a bed frame but it has a bunch of junk on it.

L: Okay.

M: And that’s where the sex toys are as well. So I pulled out the only two vibrators I brought from where I used to live. And one of them is from Fun Factory and one is the AMO from Hot Octopuss and we used both of them but they were both like, on their last life of battery.

L: Oh no.

M: So it was like, we used one and she’s like, “Okay. I’m gonna come.” You know? “This is awesome.” And then that one died.

L: Oh no.

M: And so I brought out the next one-

L: Wait, did she come first before it died?

M: No!

L: Nooo!

M: And then we brought the next one and we were like- And then she did it again.

L: (laughs)

M: It was the same exact thing. It died right before. So we charged the bullet one for like ten minutes

L: Uh huh.

M: and then she finally got to come. But it was so funny because we never use toys so they weren’t charged.

L: That’s hilarious.

M: And I’m like, “Damn it.” So I guess we have to be prepared in advance if we’re gonna do toys. But I also realize that, ’cause I’ve, you know, I had you before as a sex coach and I remember talking to you about this, that sometimes I feel like I just don’t need sex that much.

L: Mmhm.

M: And so it kinda gets me down because I feel like I have a partner who would like to have more sex than I would. And so I was talking to her about it and I’m like, “I could be the giver and I don’t need anything, you know, like, it makes me happy to just be the giver and not the receiver.”

L: Mmhm.

M: So that’s what we’ve been doing and it’s been working.

L: Oh, that’s great.

M: Yeah.

L: I was literally checking my calendar to see when the last time I had sex was.
Both: (laugh)

M: Which leads us into the next question for you. What have you been doing to take care of yourself?

L: Not having sex.

M: (laughs)

L: I am both happy for you and envious.

M: (laughs)

L: It has not been that long since I’ve had sex. It’s more the, I don’t know when the next time will be because of quarantine. So mostly I just, the only sex I have right now is masturbating and crying.
Both: (laugh)

M: That sounds really fun though.

L: It like, sometime- It’s a funny thing like, crying is very therapeutic, and you know, I’m not in a place where I’m crying every day,

M: Mmhm.

L: which is a place I used to be (laughs) for a long time, like almost the whole last year. So I guess something I’ve been doing to take care myself is letting myself cry just kind of out of nowhere.

M: Mmhm.

L: Like, I started sobbing last night. Last night was just like a hot mess. So here’s my how I took take of myself in like, the most ridiculous way. I smoked a cigarette and then I felt really nauseous and then I ended up throwing up.

M: (laughs)

L: And I don’t know (laughs) why. And then I felt so bad that it gave me a migraine and so then I took something for the migraine and I had a weed gummy and I had a Klonopin and then I masturbated and listened to a meditation tape and cried and fell asleep.

M: (laughs) Oh my god.

L: That’s a fuckin- That’s a hot mess of

M: (laughs)

L: all kinds of coping mechanisms, (laughs)

M: Yeah.

L: some which are-

M: Sounds like a journey.

L: It was a journey. So some are healthier and better than others, not to judge, you know. We should do what we need to do. So, I don’t know. I think the better answer is trying not to judge what I need in the moment

M: Yeah.

L: is what I’m doing to take care of myself.

M: That’s good.

L: Yeah. And because we’ve talked astrology and stuff on here, another thing that’s been nice is remembering that like, sometimes there are things going on, on a more universal or planetary level. And I was talking to a friend the other day and said like, mentioned some stuff that was coming back up and was like, “Why is it coming back up?” And she reminded me that Venus is in retrograde,

M: Mmhm.

L: and Venus is like, the love and relationship planet. And also like Venus is in retrograde and Gemini and I am a Gemini rising and Gemini Mars and blah blah blah. And anyway, there was something kind of like, nice about it, that made it feel like it wasn’t just me.

M: Yeah.

L: Yeah. That’s where I am?

M: Is something always in retrograde?

L: Yes. (laughs) Ooh, I just hit my head. (laughs)

M: Oh my gosh. Are you okay?

L: If you saw how I was sitting, you would be like, “How did you hit your head? There’s nothing over your head.”

M: (laughs)

L: I’m trying to find a position to record in that is comfortable for my back.

M: Yeah.

L: And it’s weird and awkward that’s just what’s going on over here.

M: Well I’m sitting on my Jesus pillow. I have a glass of wine. I haven’t had wine in a really long time so this could be a shitshow.

L: That’s amazing.

M: But I’m home alone.

L: Are you sitting on Jesus’ face?

M: I really am. With wine in my hand. (laughs)

L: I mean, as he would have wanted, really.

M: Exactly.

L: That’s great. I love it.

M: (laughs)

L: So today we’re gonna talk about gender.

M: Yay!

L: Yeah, which, you know, we talk about a lot but also not like in a dedicated kind of way. So I’m trying to think about the best way to go about it. And I don’t know if like, it’s good to- Do people listen to us for any like, 101 type stuff? Should we do a little gender 101?

M: Sure.

L: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, if any of these terms are new to you. If you hear us saying cis or like cishet, cis is short for cisgender. And all that means is not transgender. So if you are cisgender that means you identify with the gender that was assigned to you at birth and gender that’s assigned to you at birth is mostly assigned based on the genitals that you’re born with. And some folks have genitals that don’t directly assign to one or the other and they are intersex. So you’ll hear that term sometimes too, which is- You know, there’s been a really like, a gross kind of history of doctors and parents making decisions about intersex baby’s genitalia, performing surgery to try to, and this is in heavy quotations, make their genitals look more “normal.” But all genitals are normal, no matter what they look like and we should never operate on people without their consent. Anyway. And then transgender is just the big umbrella term for anyone who doesn’t feel like their gender, or whose gender doesn’t align with the gender that they were assigned at birth. And then in there there’s a whole lot of different like words and terms and, you know, gender’s kind of made up of like, internally what you feel like your gender is and then gender presentation and those two don’t always have to match. And I don’t know. Did I miss anything?

M: I don’t think so. That was awesome. Thank you.

L: Of course. Oh, and then, and folks who don’t, so when you hear like, the gender binary, gender binary means, you know, male and female. And so there can be binary trans folks, so like, trans women and trans men are still, doesn’t mean they necessarily believe in the gender binary, but still are following along of the binary, which is, you know, trans men are men, trans women are women, so it’s men and women. Anyone outside of that, there’s a lot of different terms. Nonbinary is kind of the simple one or the umbrella term for everyone who doesn’t identify as just one or the other or either. But like, genderqueer, genderfluid, agender, bigender. There’s a bunch of different terms in there too. Also, pet peeve and thing I’ve noticed a lot, is you’ll hear nonbinary shortened to enby, which is like, super cute. But make sure that if you’re using it that you’re spelling enby E-N-B-Y and not the letters N-B because the letters N-B mean Non-Black and have been around longer and already have a meaning.

M: Oh yeah. I’ve heard that before and I actually did that one time and someone told me about it and I was like, “Oh. Thank you.”

L: Yeah. Just a teaching moment because I don’t think anyone knows that and I don’t- And that’s one of those things that I don’t think anytime anyone uses the letters N-B to mean nonbinary that they realize that that term’s already being used or that that abbreviation already has like, a descriptive use to describe humans. So, yeah. If you didn’t know that now you know.

M: Yeah.

L: And I think in past episodes we’ve talked around like, gender presentation and like, how we feel about things like the word femme. Since I know I’m gonna talk a lot this time, I’ll start with you Megan. How do you feel about your gender or your gender presentation?

M: You know what’s interesting? I knew we were gonna talk about this today and I knew we had talked in previous episodes about like, one day we should do an episode about this. And it’s really funny to me that I kind of had this word anger for a really long time. But once I stopped camming and doing like, any virtual sex work I don’t feel that way anymore. And I feel very femme and that’s okay with me. And I notice I even like, dress more femme now and I wear more makeup and stuff.

L: Mmhm.

M: So it’s kind of like, reclaiming that for me, which I had some anger about before.

L: That’s nice!

M: Yeah. And I went through this period of- I think when I was camming and like, I had to perform femininity.

L: Yeah.

M: And so I had like, this weird anger towards it and I think I was also performing like heterosexuality in a way,

L: Mmhm.

M: even though I was never performing with anyone except myself. But still like, the narratives, everything was very heteronormative and that’s just what sold.

L: And very much for like a straight male gaze, right?

M: Yeah.

L: Uh huh.

M: So now that I’m not doing that and it’s been like, months of not doing it, I just feel- And it’s not to say, you know, there’s anything wrong with it. Because I enjoyed it. But I just think I used to like dress, because I was wearing like lingerie and stuff, I would dress like opposite to go out in real life. And now that I’m not wearing that stuff for work, I’m wearing like dresses. It’s just, I don’t know, it’s not something that I was conscious of until I sat down today to think about it. So isn’t that interesting?

L: I love that though. That’s really interesting. And I think it does show you, and not that that can’t change and not that this means this is your one true favorite favorite gender presentation,

M: Yeah.

L: but it does show you this is what resonates like, authentically for you.

M: Mmhm.

L: Because you’re not doing, you’re not performing it for someone else. And, you know, we’re not leaving our houses really.

M: Yeah.

L: And so, in some ways that makes it like, the most authentic version

M: Yeah.

L: is like, how do you feel about your gender and what do you wear and how do you present yourself when you’re not doing it for like, other people’s eyes, I guess.

M: Yeah.

L: Nice.

M: So it’s been kind of fun to like, to play with makeup and to do all these things. And I used to hate pink and now I love pink and today I’m even wearing pink eyeshadow.

L: Cute.

M: (laughs) So it’s weird but I like it. (laughs)

L: No. I like that. And I’ve enjoyed watching your makeup adventures. I enjoy everyone else’s makeup adventures. A lot of people I know I feel like their social media has been them experimenting with different makeup looks.

M: Mmm.

L: And I always think it’s really fun. But I definitely look at it as a kind a kind of art that I don’t do

M: (laughs)

L: but I enjoy looking at.

M: Yeah.

L: Yeah. I put on makeup, and I use the term very loosely, for the first time today in like two months, which, for me, means I covered up my zits and colored in my eyebrows and put on mascara.

M: And how did you feel?

L: Good. I like the idea- I don’t really get- I’m not really into makeup but I like the idea of like, adding like, a slight dramatic change.

M: Mmhm.

L: I guess you can’t be slightly dramatic. I guess it’s kind of an oxymoron.

M: You can be slightly dramatic. (laughs)

L: Something. Some kind of change to the way I look that’s not like, super femme. And so it’s been, you know, I used to wear makeup. And I haven’t wanted to. And like I think of coverup or like, less makeup from a fashion sense and more of like, in the same way that I like put on deodorant (laughs)

M: Yeah.

L: and things like that. So I’ve noticed that if I do like, if I color in my eyebrows and I do mascara that that feels like something but if I stay away from like eye shadow and lipstick then it doesn’t feel like, femme,

M: Mmhm.

L: which is good.

M: Yeah.

L: I also had a really interesting like, body slash gender moment the other day. So I went- So I’ve been seeing my parents in quarantine. And so I was there with my kiddo the other day and my kiddo stayed up there and I came back. But they have a pool in their neighborhood and like, whatever. No one else was there except them. I won’t go into all the details of where they live. But it’s fully safe. It’s not like a public pool or anything where a bunch of people are swimming.

M: Mmhm.

L: But my kiddo wanted to go to the pool and I didn’t even bring a bathing suit. But she really wanted me to join and like, being in a bathing suit around my family is very like, has a whole lot. Because I have a whole bunch of tattoos and I get a lot of judgment for them. I also have a mom who’s got a lot of her own body issues and occasionally puts those on me

M: Mmhm.

L: and has been very good about not doing that lately. So my decision was like, you know what, I’ll put on a bathing suit and like wear shorts. One, to feel more comfortable and two, just to cover like, my thigh tattoos ’cause those aren’t ones that are like readily visible. Like I wear tank tops around my family but I don’t really wear shorts

M: Mmhm.

L: or like short shorts. So I asked my mom to borrow a bathing suit. So like, this is the first time I’ve worn like a one piece like “women’s” bathing suit in like, I have no idea, in like a really, really long time. And it fit me perfectly, which also was just like, I don’t know, it’s interesting to kind of look at myself in the mirror and be like, “Wow. This is so not me.” But also like, “I have the exact same body as my mom.”

M: Mmhm.

L: And like, I don’t know. I don’t know what else to say about that yet.
Both: (laugh)
L: But also it was interesting because, you know, we talked about weight a little bit, and I’ve gained quite a bit of weight lately and the only reason that’s relevant is I don’t currently like, own a bathing suit that I would say like, reflects like, my comfort and my preferred gender presentation and fits.

M: Mmhm.

L: So even though this was not like, aesthetically at all what I would wear- It was like pink at the top and black at the bottom as a one piece.
M: Mmhm.
L: It was actually kind of nice, to make me feel good about my body, just to put on something that fit.

M: Yeah.

L: Yeah. So I don’t know. It was unusual. And then of course, and then I wore it with like basketball shorts like a lesbian.

M: (laughs) That’s awesome.

(commercial begins)
Erin: Hi. I’m Erin Pim, the host and producer of The Bed Post Podcast. My show is a sex and sexuality podcast that features a new guest every week from sex workers to sex educators to everyday people whose experiences with sex and sexuality can be just as enlightening, shocking, and hilarious. Find the Bed Post Podcast on iTunes and follow our social media, starting with bedpost.ca. I’ll be waiting.
(commercial ends)
L: Yeah. So like, gender’s been a really interesting thing for me for the last, I don’t know, year or so, you know, I use they/them pronouns or she/her pronouns. Most people use she/her. But I definitely feel like, seen when people use they/them. And I still don’t really know what I would call my gender identity. (laughs)

M: Mmhm.

L: Like I suppose nonbinary makes sen
se because I don’t really ascribe to a gender binary but I think I’m like still trying to unpack assumptions about what nonbinary means,

M: Yeah.

L: which is like I don’t, I understand that nonbinary falls under the trans umbrella because it’s not, you know, nonbinary is not the gender you were assigned at birth. And so I think I would feel comfortable calling myself nonbinary but I wouldn’t call myself trans.

M: Mmhm.

L: And so, but I have, no gatekeeping or questions around folks who are like trans and nonbinary. So I don’t know. I don’t know if that’s just based on like, my personal experience or like, just what feels the most comfortable for me. But yeah, I don’t know. I don’t- It’s more like, I kind of feel like my gender is more defined by what I don’t feel like, (laughs)

M: Yeah.

L: which is like, I don’t feel like trans, the trans umbrellas fits and I don’t feel femme but I don’t feel like masc or butch either. But I also don’t like, feel particularly androgynous. I think it’s more of like, there is a lot that goes into like, the gender expectations and presentation of being a woman that I am like, deeply uncomfortable with

M: Mmhm.

L: while at the same time not being uncomfortable being seen as a woman or having experienced my life as a woman. I don’t know. I don’t know if that makes sense.

M: It does.

L: Yeah. And like, I think the place I notice it the most is really in terminology and in clothing. I also, you know, used to do sex work and like, perform a certain kind of femininity that was like, very lingerie and all of that. And I kind of have the opposite reaction to you, which makes sense, which is like now that I don’t have to do it for work or for like, what I think a partner will like,

M: Mmhm.

L: I’m like, “Burn it all.” (laughs)

M: Yeah.

L: Because, which doesn’t mean it’s good or bad, it just means it’s not me.

M: Mmhm.

L: And so yeah, so that’s part of it. And then from like, just like a words point of view, and I think I said this here before, but like, ohh I just get more and more cringey when I hear ladies or lady. Or I’ve decided that like, I can deal- I got- I was at Trader Joe’s today and I got, miss. I got miss’ed. And that’s fine because ma’am is so not okay for me

M: Yeah.

L: that like, if you must like, greet me with a gendered term, which can we just stop, with everyone. I would really love if we would just not do that anymore.

M: Yeah.

L: But if you must, miss over ma’am any day because ma’am just makes me deeply uncomfortable.

M: We still get, “Hey ladies,” in our DM.

L: Oh, I know.

M: Yeah.

L: I get it everywhere. And the more

M: That surprised me.

L: Yeah.

M: I’m surprised people still use ladies. I don’t know. I mean, I don’t know why. It just feels like- Like it doesn’t bother me to be called ladies but I know, I think I have read like from yours that you don’t like it.

L: I don’t.

M: So now I’m more aware of it, that I hear it a lot. And I do feel like it’s kind of a weird term. Like why do people say ladies? (laughs)

L: Yeah. And I do think I’ve said this before, but I think there’s like, an interesting thing about perception and performance and what different things mean. Because when I was with my ex, who transitioned during our relationship, I was presenting in, never in like a hyper femme or high femme but definitely in like a more femme than I do now,

M: Mmhm.

L: and she was slash is very femme. So because I was very like, I was like, watching her transition, being called ladies felt really nice.

M: Mmhm.

L: Because I felt like it meant she was being seen.

M: Yeah.

L: So if we would go into places and people would be like, “Welcome ladies,” I was able to have a sort of like, compersion response

M: Yeah. That’s sweet.

L: to like, “Oh, they see her for who she is. That’s awesome.” But since- So that’s been my only like positive experience of being ladies’ed. (laughs) But now it’s like, I don’t know. I don’t know what I want. I think I just want- That’s where I feel like I want like, less gendered things.

M: Why can’t everyone say, “Hi friend.”

L: That’s what I say, friend.

M: Isn’t that cute?

L: Friends of folks, it’s so easy.

M: Like at Trader Joe’s. “Hey friend. Can I help you?”

L: Yeah!

M: I would love that.

L: Right? I’m in a Facebook group, like a queer Facebook group. I mean, I’m in many of ’em. But somebody posted in one of ’em today, which I thought was just like, the cutest thing ever. And I like, don’t want to quote the person because I don’t know that they want to be public, but just to say that like, I did not come up with this. But what this person, who I think is female identified, wrote was, “I’ve just realized my type is the kind of girl old ladies call young man in the supermarket.” (laughs)

M: Aw that’s so cute.

L: Right? Which like, I will like, on some level like, I feel like, I probably, I don’t know. Like I don’t want to be called young man either but like, I’d rather be called champ (laughs) than ma’am.

M: (laughs)

L: Yeah. I don’t know. I think I’m often attracted to people with like, soft features but more of a butch aesthetic.

M: Mmhm.

L: So maybe that’s what I’m aiming for. I’m not really sure.

M: Yeah.

L: I also don’t know the best way to like- It’s interesting to talk about pronouns in like, larger crowds. ‘Cause so much of community is queer that like, my pronouns are on my social media and like, in my signature for my work.

M: Mmhm.

L: But like, that’s kind of it. And so, you know, when I run into people like, so much of like what I do is like I said, in such like a- A lot of people I know are trans and a lot of people I know are nonbinary. And so most of the circles I run like, talking pronouns is like, really common and comfortable there aren’t assumptions made. So I don’t know that I’ll ever want to navigate that differently in like, the larger world, you know?

M: Yeah.

L: I feel like I’ve been talking a whole lot. Do you have anything you want to say?

M: Not really. I just like listening to your journey because I know this is something you’ve been experiencing more recently.

L: Yeah.

M: Having a best friend who is nonbinary has been really good for my family because they’ve had to learn they/them pronouns.

L: Yeah.

M: And it just like warms my heart because I talk about Sam all the time.

L: Mmhm.

M: And my nana knows you, she knows your daughter, she knows Sam, like she, even though she hasn’t met a lot of people, she’ll ask about- Remember, we were having a discussion about your kiddos name and- (laughs)

L: Yeah.

M: But it’s been nice to have her refer to Sam as they/them.

L: Yes. Totally.

M: Because it just makes me happy. And it’s like, she’s learning too. And I know it wasn’t easy for her so she’s really had to open her mind.

L: Yeah. I was just thinking like, I can’t remember if I told this anecdote here already, so correct me if I have.  But I asked my kiddo what was different about having gay parents and straight parents. Did I tell you this?

M: I don’t remember.

L: Okay. Yeah, so, just ’cause I was curious and, you know, it was just Mother’s Day, and I was like, “Do you notice any different in having gay parents and having straight parents?” ‘Cause she’s got two ostensibly straight – I think they’re both straight – parents and two gay parents. And (laughs) she said, “No. Not really. You just, with you, you know more thems.” (laughs)

M: Oh, that’s the cutest thing.

L: I know, right? It is the cutest thing. The other cutest thing is I got something from like, a friend and my kiddo was trying to remember which friend just by the name and I was like, “Oh. You know, they’re nonbinary and they have tattoos.” And my kiddo was like, “A lot of people are nonbinary and have tattoos.”

M: (laughs)

L: And I was like, ” Touché.” So like, yeah. I feel also grateful that she’s had people in her life like, from the start, who are nonbinary and she’s always been like, really seamless about the use of pronouns and even using kind of they when she doesn’t know someone’s pronouns

M: Yeah.

L: and recognizing it if she hears it. Somewhere, like we were watching one of, an episode of Trolls and a character said something where they’re like, you know, they talk about something and they say, “She, he, or they.”

M: Mmhm.

L: And like, we were so (laughs) delighted. And my kiddo was so delighted by it. Like she notices these things like, whether or not she’s going to be queer or straight or cis or whatever, she is like, already a very strong ally and there’s something really precious about that.

M: That is.

L: Yeah.

M: Aww. I love her.

L: And also just shows how, you know, how easy those things really are. I do notice though that when I talk to my parents about, I just don’t talk about my friends all that much.

M: Mmhm.

L: So it doesn’t come up all that often. But sometimes I will like, say someone’s name and I will say they and like, my parents never ask but they always say she back, which is just really funny.

M: (laughs) They do?

L: Because they’re not basing it on how a person looks even, right.

M: Yeah.

L: They’re not making like, what their gender assigned at birth is. So I think a lot of that just comes from the fact that they don’t think I have any friends who are guys, (laughs)

M: Yeah.

L: which is true. And they don’t think like, about nonbinary people so they’re like, “Oh, whatever.”

M: “Must be she then.”

L: “Whatever you’re talking about must be she.”

M: (laughs)

L: So that’s amusing to me. I also told my therapist about my bathing suit adventure and was like, “I need to figure out…” You know, and she reminded me, she was like, “Well, you know, there are like, there are of course like, one piece bathing suits if that was something you wanted that would fit you really well but wouldn’t be like, you know, femme, at all.” And I was like, “Yeah. But I’ve decided like I very strongly like, even though I don’t want like a super like, femme-y like, bikini per se, that I don’t want anything that like, flattens me.” Because, I have like, a real thing, and I don’t know if this is just like, diet culture or whatever, but like I can’t let my belly look bigger than my boobs.

M: Mmhm.

L: And that’s weird. And I don’t know why. Just putting that out there.
Both: (laugh)

M: It’s funny we’re talking about this ’cause I just bought a bathing suit like two days ago.

L: Did you?

M: Yeah. I went to Target.

L: Oh. What kind? What style?

M: It’s a one piece.

L: Nice.

M: It looks like, kind of like a vintagey one piece.

L: Oh I love those.

M: And I haven’t tried it on yet. And I’m always conscious of that. Like I don’t want my belly to look a certain way in bathing suits and stuff. And then I just had this memory of when we were swimming at that hotel together, that was so fun. I wish we were there right now.

L: Oh, that was fun. I remember going to a hotel.

M: Was that The W?

L: Yes.

M: That was such a nice hotel.

L: It was.

M: But anyways, I don’t know when I will have the chance to try on this bathing suit and wear it but hopefully soon.

L: Just wear it around your house.

M: (laughs) I know.

L: I know.

M: I miss doing things and going out.

L: Yeah. I know. Me too. So yeah, I guess it’s like, I guess from like, a how other people think about things like, my gender information to leave with everyone is just don’t assume people’s gender. And like, don’t assume that if you’re in a large group, even if it’s primarily women, but you know it’s like women and nonbinary people, just like, stop yourself before saying girls and ladies.

M: Yeah.

L: Because ew. We don’t need it. And like, you know, I think there was a lot more conversation around not saying guys to assume that that was gender neutral, (laughs)

M: Mmhm.

L: which I think a lot of people have really like, done work around that and that’s awesome.

M: I still say that sometimes. I try not to, but it’s so hard.

L: Honestly, that’s the hardest one for me because it doesn’t feel gendered to me,

M: I know. It doesn’t.

L: but that doesn’t mean it’s not. So I also find myself like, having trouble like remembering it with people who I don’t- Like, I say y’all but I say y’all in like a queer way.

M: Mmhm.

L: So I don’t say it around straight people as often.

M: Yeah, me either.

L: But then I find myself saying you guys around straight people like, if I’m talking to like, a straight couple, like, “What’d you guys do this weekend?” And then I’m like, “Well, I’m not modeling good queer language.” (laughs) But I also don’t feel like-

M: That’s so funny. I do the same thing.

L: Yeah. What is that?

M: I say y’all

L: I say you all-

M: to queers. (laughs)

L: Yes! Or I’ll say you all, like, “What are you all doing?” But that’s kind of Midwestern and something that I’m more likely to type than to say out loud. So, eh.

M: And suddenly I like to say dude now. So I don’t know where that comes from but I always check with people.

L: Dude’s a funny one because I’m totally fine with being called dude.

M: (laughs)

L: Because there’s a difference between dude and a dude.

M: That’s such a California thing, right?

L: It is.

M: I think guys and dude is something that a lot of southern Californians feel like that’s not gendered but to some people that can be a triggering like, you know, don’t want to be called that.

L: Of course.

M: So, you know. I try to ask or check like, I know Sam is fine with dude so I love saying like, “Oh my god. Dude, this thing happened.” It’s just, I love talking like that. And I never used to say it. So I don’t know why in my almost 33rd year of life, dude has become a thing I like and here we are, so.

L: And dude is almost like a, dude is often like an exclamation, like, “Dude! Did you see blah blah blah.” I’m not calling you dude. I’m saying dude like,

M: Yeah.

L: into the world. Because like I- If someone said to me, “Dude! I have to tell you something,” I wouldn’t think about it all in a gendered.

M: Yeah.

L: But if someone was like, “You’re my favorite dude,” I’d be like,

M: (laughs)

L: “Oh, I don’t really feel like a dude, but like, alright.” You know?
Both: (laugh)

M: That’s totally different.

L: Yeah, like, I’m not a dude.

M: (laughs)

L: But you can call me dude.

M: That’s so true.

L: Yeah. Also, just because I’m full of educational information today, I know we didn’t get like, way into the idea of like butch and femme or masc or any of those kind of terms, just a reminded to our straight listeners, butch and femme are queer terms, so don’t use ’em if you’re straight to talk about yourself. Cool, cool, cool.

M: Yeah.

L: But also, don’t gatekeep and feel like you know, you can like, you can’t tell if someone’s queer and someone can be, you know, a cis bisexual woman married to a man and still identify as a femme because she’s still part of the queer community.

M: Mmhm.

L: So, yeah. Somewhere in between like, let’s not appropriate but also let’s not gatekeep, is a nice place where we’re just mindful of the words we use.

M: Yeah. I think that’s a great point to end on.

L: Yeah. Alright. Cool. Thanks for going on this

M: (laughs)

L: little mini journey with me. Yeah, and anyone has any thoughts or wants to share anything about your own gender experience, I’d love to hear it. I think we’d all love to hear it. So, as always, feel free to send us your messages.

M: Slide in the DMs or emails. (laughs)

L:Yep. Yes indeed. Alright. Byye.

M: Byye.

L: Thanks for listening to Queers Next Door. We hope you enjoyed it. Be sure to follow, subscribe, and leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts.
M: If you like what we’re doing, join the Queers Next Door fan club at patreon.com/queersnextdoor to receive all of our exclusive content, and we’ll mail you a fun little surprise. You can find the link on our blog queersnextdoor.com. Cheers, queers!

About Queers Next Door

we take the topics you care about - sex, feminism, kink, social justice, and entertainment - and look at them through a queer AF lens. Cheers, queers! <3

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