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Megan: Welcome to Queers Next Door
Leigh: with your hosts Leigh and Megan.
M: We take the topics you care about:
L: sex, relationships, feminism, kink, social justice, and entertainment,
M: and look at them through a queer as fuck lens.
L: Find us on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook at Queers Next Door
M: and make sure to follow the blog at queersnextd
L: Cheers, queers!
L: Okay let’s do it.
M: I did it.
M: Oh, I’m asking you first, huh?
L: Do it,
M: I already forgot that. I’m like, wait, what are we doing again?
M: This is my first time. Okay.
Masha: Congratulations on your first time ever
Masha: recording a podcast, both of you.
L: Welcome to our first episode.
M: (laughs) It’s too long in between. I forget every time. I’m like, “What?” (laughs) Hi Leigh.
L: Hi Megan.
M: What have you been doing to take care of yourself.
L: That’s an excellent question. What have I done this week? I’ve been staying really busy. I’ve been in PMDD symptoms, kind of like peak time this last week and so I kind of feel like garbage today but I have been, I picked up a new like cleaning/organizing gig that’s like pretty regular and I’ve got a new client. And so I’ve just been like I don’t know, keeping my body busy so my brain feels a lot more chill. I also went to a clothing swap this weekend, which is a thing I’ve done before, but I’ve been feeling like, not amazing about the way I look lately. And so it was really like, it had a very nice, like empowering feel ’cause it’s just a bunch of people like in their underwear like of all sizes trying on clothes and everyone’s just telling them how great they look, so that was really nice, and I got some new stuff.
M: That sounds lovely.
L: Yeah. Megan, what have you been doing to take care of yourself this week? Or multiple weeks?
M: I went to another concert, and I don’t know why that feels like a good answer. I saw She Wants Revenge.
L: Oh fun. I remember them.
M: This is concert number four of the year, which usually I do like one a year so
M: I don’t know what’s happening this year,
L: That’s great.
M: but it’s fun. And then therapy, like any time I actually go to therapy, ’cause it’s every two weeks, I feel proud of myself.
M: So I did it. And then now you got me the Dosist pen.
L: I did!
M: Is it just like ready to use right when you open it?
L: It is.
M: Oh my god. I should do it like while we’re recording.
L: You can do it. It’s like, you’ll be totally fine. It’s 10:1 CBD to THC. So it’s not gonna… You might feel like a teeny buzzy like the first time you do it, but it’s not gonna get you high. It’s just gonna get you chill.
M: I’m so excited. I told my therapist because I still haven’t done my psych evaluation,
M: and she was like, “Cool. Let me know how it goes.”
M: So she’s into it.
L: No, it’s great. You don’t have to know anything, and it vibrates. Did you try mine last time? I can’t remember.
M: I don’t know. I don’t remember either. I’ve been thinking about that. Did I try it or not? I don’t know.
L: Well you suck on the side that has the little band on it
M: I think I must have. I feel like I did.
L: and when it vibrates you’re done. Dosist, we’re still available if you’d like to sponsor us, so
L: or Med Men.
L: ‘Kay, cool.
M: Yep. That was the shortest one ever!
L: Was it? We didn’t talk for three hours.
M: Yeah. Yaaay!
L: Don’t worry. Don’t worry. I’m just waking up.
L: Okay, well we have exciting news. We have a guest today.
Masha: Hi gang.
L: Hey! So our guest today is my best friend Masha, and Masha is a holistic wellness practitioner here in LA. Masha, what have you been doing this week to take care of yourself?
Masha: So I’ve really been focusing on boundaries and expectations and expressing needs, and I know that’s hard for a lot of us
Masha: to feel those things are valid and then follow through on them. So I’ve been working real hard at that this week to maintain boundaries that I’ve already drawn and
(thudding sound of someone hitting a mic)
Masha: (laughs) express needs where it might make me anxious to normally.
L: That’s amazing. Yay. That’s awesome.
M: Very well said too.
L: We talk about boundaries a lot. We’ve both been like rollin’ with boundaries in 2019.
M: Yes. And oh, I’ve been doing good still.
L: Me too! I had to set a few like boundaries this week, so yay!
M: Look at us
M: doin’ a good job. I don’t know if you guys are into it, but I love to be called a good girl, so good girls.
L: I’m like medium into it.
L: I’m neutral. I’m ambivalent about it, but I will take it.
Masha: How do you feel about people telling you they’re proud of you?
L: I like that.
M: I like it.
L: I like when people are proud of me.
Masha: It’s, I find it’s hit or miss ’cause coming just from a human place, I really like telling people I’m proud of them. Coming from a practitioner place, it sometimes is not
Masha: the appropriate thing to do.
L: I tell clients I’m proud of them a lot, but yeah, I do try to find the right way to say it so it doesn’t sound weird and patronizing.
Masha: Yeah, exactly.
L: But I notice I say it a lot and people tend to respond like really positively to that.
L: Yeah, so Masha, do you want to tell us a little bit about what you do
L: and like what your practice is.
Masha: Absolutely. So there are two pieces to what I do. One is the holistic piece, which I don’t know if you guys have talked about at some point on the podcast, but a holistic perspective can be applied to anything; physical health, mental health, how we communicate, how we do our jobs. It’s really just the opposite of slicing things into separate pieces and treating them differently. It’s really looking at the whole and looking at the root of what’s going on and how you would like things to be. So that’s the approach that I use in my wellness practice and what I like to call what I do is essentially couples counseling for you and your body, because your body communicates with you constantly. It just doesn’t do it in English, and so you don’t always know that it’s saying something or what it’s saying. And so we do a lot of looking at what your body needs, what it’s trying to tell you.
L: So if you’ve been listening to the podcast so far, you’ve heard me talk a lot about all the weird allergy stuff that I’ve had going on lately and then of course the ongoing journey with PMDD and a big part of the whole, of addressing both of those things has been like nutrition and supplements and so Masha has been my absolute lifesaver with regards to both of those things so I may or may not have mentioned her name on here, but I know I’ve at least talked about that I had someone who helped me with that, so…
Masha: Mmhm. Yeah.
L: So yeah, those are just two places where that kind of support has been rad, but I know you work with all different kinds of…
Masha: Yeah, a lot of what I work with is mental health,
Masha: but also a lot of what I do is kind of resourcing people out to other people. So I can help you take a holistic look at what is going on with you emotionally, physically. What is your family history? What is your personal history? Where do you have limiting beliefs or where are you getting stuck that you might not be able to identify, but is manifesting as physical or emotional symptoms. And so really helping people find the resources that will address everything that might be going on.
L: That’s awesome. And you know, I do, I do a lot of that in my sex coaching,
L: which is, you know, try to have a more holistic approach and like refer out
L: when other people can help. And since you two just met today, Megan is also looking, is also studying sex coaching.
M: And I’ve done life coaching training. So I was gonna ask you if
Masha: That’s fantastic!
M: if you do life coaching and health coaching or
M: health and wellness, ’cause even though I’ve never like stayed active in the community and I don’t know if people like are very into like making it different or do you combine, you know?
Masha: Mmhm. I tend to do things how I would like them done for me
Masha: so I sort of just do a combination of approaches and I do tend to do more of a coaching approach because it’s actionable. It’s solutions based. A lot of this I learned from seeing Leigh be a coach and realizing that coaching is not just like someone who didn’t become a therapist. It’s just its own modality that works better for some people. So solutions based and also I think it can be really helpful to have accountability and so I know what I would like with myself in a practitioner is someone who meets me where I am, who is not binary, is not like there is failing and there is succeeding. There is not a right way and a wrong way. They really just look at where I am and how can we get you where you’re going from where you are doing what you have the resources to do.
L: Let’s talk about some queer shit.
L: Masha’s just like…
M: I wish they could see our faces. The reactions are great.
L: It’s really good.
M: (sing songs) Queer stuff!
L: I don’t want to just like throw that at you, but, so, Masha, how do you identify?
Masha: That’s a great question.
L: And I know that that is a, that is a question that the answer today does not need to be the answer tomorrow or the answer six months ago or the answer five years from now, but
Masha: Well, do you want to do a little summary (laughs) of what all my queer stuff is?
L: I think you should do it.
Masha: I think you should do it. (laughs)
L: I think you should do it.
L: Okay, well I never, you know, this is where I become all coachy and therapisty where I’m like
L: I don’t want to speak for anybody else. But, so I’ve known Masha for foooouur?
L: Five years!
L: And I think that the way I would describe you as identifying from like, I mean I know you identify as a cis woman, but from a sexuality point of view was like, mostly straight?
Masha: Always questioning
Masha. never doing.
L: (laughs) There you go.
L: That’s a good one.
M: I like that.
L: Yeah, so I never read you as like, “Oh, Masha’s one hundred percent straight,”
L: but I also like, not that who you date or who you have sex with has that much to do with it…
L: I know you’ve gone on like some like first dates with women
L: a few times but that primarily you’ve dated cis men.
L: and that’s who you’ve had sex with,
L: but that’s maybe not how you define yourself and that’s something that as you’ve been making some changes in your life
L: is coming up for you more. Yeah.
Masha: Yeah. I think, you know, we spend a lot of time over the years recognizing that that’s maybe not what my system wants or needs.
Masha: Men. (laughs)
L: Yeah. Word.
Masha: But feeling sort of incapable or stuck. Something we talked about is where bisexuality was in the ’90s when I was sort of coming of age and figuring out my sexual orientation. I feel like I didn’t see that much bisexuality and I had a lot of queer friends and I saw how hard things were for them and I saw the binary and I was like well if I’m not gay, then I guess I’m…straight?
Masha: And just sort of left it at that. And I was the president of my gay-straight alliance in high school. I was all these like
L: I always forget that.
L: Every time you say that I’m like, “Oh, right.” Yeah.
Masha: I watch lesbian porn. That is my preferred… All of these things that I say and you’d be like, “Yeah, that’s gay.” And I’m like, “Yeah, but I don’t know.” (laughs)
L: Well, and like, I think when we were talking about this I was thinking that Megan you kind of went through something sort of similar to that too
L: even though you like ID’d as a lesbian first.
M: Yeah. Well, it was just the whole like also not accepting bisexuality in myself especially but also others, because I would hear people say that bisexuality is just kind of like a path you take but then you have to arrive at one or the other.
M: You have to be, you’re gonna end up being gay or straight,
Masha: Oh, absolutely.
M: and then I would hear the people that, they would say like, they would joke around like, “Don’t date bi girls. They’re just gonna hurt you.”
M: And, “They’re just using you” and “they’re just trying to like test it out to like see but then they end up leaving you and going back to men.”
M: So I think I took all of those things, as like, “Oh, well I don’t want to be that.”
M: And, “I guess it’s not a real thing so I have to be one or the other.” So when I was attracted to my ex-husband and we ended up getting married, I was like, “Oh, I guess I was straight this whole time. Who knew?” (laughs)
Masha: Mmhm. Yeah.
M: You know, like, “Yeah, I must have just been out of my mind. I was straight.” And then still not really understanding until I was in my late twenties that like, “Oh, bisexuality is it’s own thing. You don’t have to be one or the other.”
Masha: Mmhm. I think it’s a huge thing, lack of representation with anything, with sexuality, with gender, with body. It’s something that has been a huge issue for me growing up not seeing representations of my body and it forcing me to have a very binary view
Masha: of bodies and now having a place for my body that turned into some really dysfunctional behavior. And I think it’s the same thing maybe with sexuality where I didn’t see what resonated with me so I was like, “I guess I just, one’s right and one’s wrong, and I’m not- Where do I go?”
L: Yeah. And like, I’m trying to think of like, ’cause you know, we did, our last episode we did about like queer movies, but there, you know, even talking about that, like a lot of the representation that you were seeing was either started out being that kind of like tragic like, the lesbian dies at the end kind of thing or, but still there’s not a lot of bisexuality or people understanding their queerness as something more fluid.
L: There’s a lot of coming out stories, especially like I feel like, again in the ’90s when we start to get a lot more like indie gay movies, a lot of them are coming out stories.
L: Coming out stories are great. They’re important, but people don’t come out as not on the gay-straight binary
L: very often, so…
Masha: It’s more like acting on it or not acting on it.
M: Ooh and I have a lot of people that I know who are bisexual but they’re married to cis men and they are monogamous
M: and so I’ve seen some discussion about that, about not feeling like you can go to Pride and stuff like that, just because you don’t…
M: So in that case, they are not acting on it, but it doesn’t take away the fact that it is their identity.
Masha: Right. But I mean you can be poly and dating one person,
Masha: but you’re still poly.
M: And like kinky too, right, all these different things
M: where it’s very easy to be like, “I’m not doing it”
Masha: You don’t have to be all kink all the time to be
M: so “I can’t claim that anymore ’cause I’m not doing it anymore,”
M: but it’s not true. I think we just, that’s how we kind of view things when we’re seeing some kind of communities and we’re like, “Oh, we don’t fit into that, so I can’t be that anymore.”
L: Or even just having an interest in, even being like, not even just being poly and dating one person,
L: but being like, “So I think polyamory seems like what I would like when I start dating,”
L: you know, or, “It seems like the more I learn about kink, that seems like something I’d like to explore”
L: “with my next partner.”
L: But like, you know, and the same thing, like, “Maybe I’ve dated men my whole life, but I’m attracted to and interested in women and I don’t know if that will ever go past a place of flirtation and fantasy” for example.
Masha: Mmhm. Yeah.
L: But that doesn’t, like, you’re always, you know, it’s the you’re always queer enough, you’re always kinky enough. You’re always poly enough.
L: You’re always whatever. Because if you’re questioning it, then that’s the answer,
L: you know.
Masha: I think it makes a big difference also when there’s terminology that’s accessible to you that lets you know that if you’re thinking about it, it applies to you.
Masha: So, for example, I remember, I think it wasn’t until I was thirty that OKCupid had a heteroflexible option.
L: I just hit the- Megan, I hit something this time.
M: (laughs) That’s because you’re in a chair.
L: I am in a chair.
L: I’m not usually in a chair.
M: We’re not in our usual positions.
L: Yeees. Oh, heteroflexible, sure.
Masha: And I was like, “Oh, okay,” because it never felt accurate to say bisexual because I hadn’t acted on anything that wasn’t straight and I didn’t want to misrepresent, but how do you explore if you’re not putting yourself out there. A thing I think about all the time is that I’m in my mid-thirties and I would not sleep with a man who had never slept with a woman, and that’s not a judgment. That’s just, I think that would be a lot for me. So I find it concerning to expect a woman to sleep with a woman who’s never had an ongoing sexual relationship with a woman.
L: That’s really interesting ’cause I was just gonna tell you I had this conversation with someone recently who also, you know, came to their queer identity, a woman, in the middle of a relationship with a man that was monogamous
L: and so also, therefore, has not had a lot of opportunities because the relationship ended, you know, fairly recently
L: but feels that like, “Oh, do people want to date like”
L: “a mid-thirties, kind of, you know, baby queer,”
L: but I think the thing is, I mean, I don’t like to make stereotypes about like, the whole, you know, queer female community, but I do think there’s more openness to that
L: because I think a lot of our experience, for those of us who have not been like
L: lesbian-identified from day one
L: or even for some who have
Masha: Maybe non-linear.
L: Yeah, has been, well has been to have a lot of experience come from men
L: and I think that’s a more recognizable story
L: you know, I think
L: just because people are coming out earlier in life now
L: than they were 20, 40 years ago, doesn’t mean everybody is.
Masha: Yeah. The other thing I think about is how much time I, I mean basically most of my sexual experiences with men were just casual sex for however long I’ve been, 18 years, I don’t know. And part of that was I remember picking up every magazine article, and this was like before the internet, every magazine article that was like, “How do you give the best blowjob? How do you have the most oppressive sex?” There weren’t articles of how to do anything to women. Maybe if there were, I had read them.
Masha: No, that wasn’t a thing. Maybe if there were I would have read them. (laughs)
M: No, I got it. I was like I get what you mean.
L: You know, there is, I’m gonna plug a book that I haven’t read yet, Girl Sex.
M: Girl Sex 101, right?
L: Girl Sex 101. It’s Aaaall
M: Allison Moon.
L: Allison Moon. Yes. I was like it’s Allison Moon! I think that’s her name.
L: Okay, yeah, I heard her speak at a conference. She was amazing. I have not read it, but it is a huge book.
M: We should do it for our, we’re not doing a book club, but we’ve like joked about it, but we should read it because I have not read it either, but I’ve seen a sample, and I’m really curious. But I was gonna say that I like had sex with a man, or no, well we were like 15, so, a girl and a boy, the same year
Masha: (laughs) Mmhm.
M: and I just think, it was just so explorative
M: but to me, I’ve been with actually an equal amount of men and women ’cause I actually counted,
M: but that’s because in my early twenties I just like slept around with a ton of dudes,
M: which, you know, I’ve talked a little bit about that, how I just, it’s fine, I just wish that I was in a better, like empowered mindset when it happened, but either way.
M: To me it’s always surprising that it’s like an equal amount, I don’t know why.
M: But like every time I sleep with a new queer person or woman, I feel like it’s always different,
M: so there’s still a lot more communication that happens and it could just be because I haven’t done it like since, I haven’t slept with a man in a really long time, or a cis man I should say. It still felt very much like you always know what’s gonna happen. So it kind of felt safer to me.
M: And now, it doesn’t matter that I sleep with, my partner is a cis woman and I sleep with her more than anyone else, I still, every single time someone new comes into my life, I’m like, “Oh shit. What if I forgot?”
M: Just because it’s so different.
L: Well and what is this person into?
L: And there is like a, I feel like, in my experiences with cis men, yeah, there’s like a script, right, for kind of how sex is gonna go
L: and if you stay sleeping with that person for a long time or you have a close relationship, then definitely, and this is just my experience, you definitely might have those conversations, like, “Oh, let’s try blah blah blah” or “Let’s do this.”
L: But that like first time or first few times, like I just kind of know what it’s gonna look like.
L: And with women and nonbinary/other queer folks,
L: it’s not that the same, which is exciting, and also like, “Ahhhh! I have to collect new data every time!”
L: And Masha’s making a face, just the collecting data phrase is something I really
L: probably the thing I got the most from Masha and like what I tell people, I tell people this all the time in coaching and in anything, which is like, “Well, you just, you know, think of it as collecting data,” so I know, I won’t speak for Masha, but I know that
Masha: No, I get really excited about that phrase
M: (laughs) I love that.
Masha: because it helps ground me because I’m very much a perfectionist
Masha: and black and white, and I’ve had to do a lot of work around that. But so one of the fears then in having sex with women when you really haven’t is I’m not the expert. How can I do something when
L: When you’re not the best? (laughs)
Masha: when I’m not the best, yeah. And I only got to be “the best” at having sex with men because I did so much of it at a time that no one was the best so we were all amateurs. (laughs)
L: (laughs) Right.
Masha: Now I feel like I’m falling behind like I’m like I’m taking up a new sport
Masha: or hobby
L: Right. Because you are.
Masha: in middle age. Am I middle aged?
L: You’re not middle-aged.
Masha: What is middle age?
L: I don’t, you’re not, I don’t know. When do you think you’re gonna die? (laughs) It’s in the middle. It’s half. (laughs)
Masha: (laughs) Hopefully I’m halfway there ’cause I’m very tired.
L: I don’t know. I know, I was asking if like, if, ’cause I’m almost 40, which I mention all the time. Is that middle…
Masha: Are you almost 40?
L: I’m almost 40.
M: I think fifty is middle age.
M: 100 is more like the average, right?
Masha: Oh, I definitely thought it was your 40s, but my mom has been saying how old she is since she was 30, so I feel very confused.
L: My grandma seemed very old and like other pictures from my grandma’s 60th birthday party, and that’s the equivalent of what I would think of as like someone’s 80th birthday party now.
L: Like my parents are like 65
L: and they seem pretty young to me and my grandma was like five years younger at this like party I remember very much, like, “Look at the old grandma, old lady having a birthday party.”
L: But you know why? Because she got divorced at 29 with eight kids so she was fucking exhausted.
M: Oh wooow.
Masha: How did she even?
L: Two sets of twins. Catholicism.
Masha: No, I mean I understand that.
L: You’re like, “No, I get how it works.”
Masha: Like (laughs)
Masha: How did she sustain that?
L: I mean she worked and…
M: That’s a lot of children.
Masha: That’s so many children. Did they like raise each other?
L: Well they were closer, both my parents are one of eight, but because in my dad’s family there are two sets of twins,
L: they’re much closer in age, you know.
L: Like there’s a 20 year span in my mom’s family. In my dad’s family, there’s more like a 10-12, I don’t know. I’d have to do math and math is hard.
Masha: It’s interesting because having that many children does not make your family a sex-positive family,
L: Oh, noo.
Masha: but they did have a lot of sex.
L: Well, yeah, but I also think it’s really a testament to how shitty my grandpa was for my grandma to have decided to leave him in the, whatever year that was, in the 60s.
L: Yeah. With that many kids and being Catholic.
Masha: (whispers) Woow.
L: Like when my grandma couldn’t go to church when she was sick she was watching it on TV.
Masha: (whispers) Woow.
L: Do you know that this is a thing Catholics do, you know you can do Mass on television?
Masha: Does it count? Does God like count that?
L: Yeah, it counts. It’s a loophole.
M: Like, what, you get half credit? (laughs)
L: You do. No, it’s like legit.
Masha: (laughs) For showing your work.
L: There’s like a specific channel to watch like real, like this counts, church. Mmhm. Uh huh.
Masha: (whispers) Woow.
L: Anyway, I don’t know how this became a discussion of my family.
Masha: (laughs) I brought up your family having sex. You’re welcome. (laughs)
L: Good. They will not listen.
Person 1: On a night like another other night, we were on vacation from Christmas, so the week between Christmas and New Year’s.
Person 2: My parents were followers of the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, who is was then known as the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, currently known as Osho even though he’s been dead since the `80s.
Megan: And then I heard the noises again and I looked again but this time I could hear footsteps like someone was definitely coming in.
Person 1: And when I walked into the bedroom I noticed that Andre’s side of the bedsheets were pulled down, but he wasn’t in the bed.
Person 2: I wouldn’t say we were a doomsday cult per se.
Megan: But when the door opened, it opened like, like from a horror movie. It was like slow and creaky and then she held the knife over her head.
Person 2: I think when you get to a certain point where you’re either putting a tinfoil hat on
Person 1 (overlapping): Each time it got a little bit worse because I stayed and he made me feel like
Dick: Welcome to Being There, the podcast devoted to exploring the extraordinary aspects of everyday people’s lives. I’m Dick.
Kelly: And I’m Kelly, and you can find us on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and all other major podcast apps. You can also follow us on our social media; Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter at BeingTherePod
(various overlapping voices telling stories)
L: So I guess, do you, I guess going back to that, like do, how do you think if you start dating women, how do you think you communicate where you are?
Masha: The first date I went on with a woman was probably a little over five years ago,
Masha: and I think we matched on Tinder or something and we were having a drink and at some point, she asked me if I was out
Masha: and I had to be like, “Here’s the thing. There’s nothing to be out…” like, how
Masha: Like, I’m not, I don’t have anything to be out about.
Masha: I still kind of feel that way,
Masha: because there’s nothing like to, it almost feels like there’s nothing to confess to.
L: That’s, I’d like to dig into why it feels like something you need to confess. (laughs)
L: Megan’s over here coughing.
M: But I also want to know how the date went.
Masha: After that, she was like, “Oooh, okay. Yeah, we’re going dancing with my friends.” Like, it
L: (laughs) It’s not that kind of date.
Masha: It stopped being a date.
Masha: I’m like, “Okay. Yeah.”
M: Oh. Okay.
Masha: And she’s someone who’s always known she was gay,
Masha: pretty much and won’t date someone who’s exploring,
L: And you know what, that’s okay.
Masha: and that’s absolutely okay, but it’s hard, especially it’s hard with, when you’re not meeting people organically
(thumping sound of someone hitting a mic)
L: There it is.
Masha: It’s hard when you’re not meeting people organically and you have to sort of, when you’re using the apps or whatever
Masha: and you have to lay out what you need people to know
L: Of course.
Masha: but without them knowing you first, maybe without you necessarily knowing what you want to convey or share.
L: I know for me I care so much more about dating somebody who is emotionally intelligent and like doing work than I care about what their history is.
L: You know, like if I met somebody who was like, “I’ve only been in one relationship” or, “I’ve never been in a relationship,” but like, “I know how to talk about my feelings” and, “I go to therapy,” I’d be like, “Cool. We can make this work.”
L: Or at least there’s a possibility for making it work.
Masha: What if the sex is bad?
L: Depends. Depends. I feel like there’s two kinds of bad sex. There’s like awkward sex
L: that is like, “Okay, let’s communicate better and like try to understand like what we like and try some different things.” And then there’s like, “I kiss like I’m like licking like”
L: “a fish or something,” where you’re like, “Oh, this just isn’t gonna-” which I haven’t encountered in a really long time.
L: I did go on a date with a guy several years ago where I caught myself like in the middle of the sex being like, (dissatisfied noise) “uhhhn,” like, “I think we’re both not having a good time here.”
L: And I didn’t feel like I had the excitement or the energy to like make it better,
L: and was just like, “Well, shrug.” And then when it was over, he was like, “That was amazing.”
L: And I was like, “Ohhh. Aww.” And that part
Masha: Bless your heart.
L: – bless your heart – that part actually made me more likely to, I was, that was the moment where I was like, “Yeah, we’re not gonna do this again.”
L: So it was like less that the sex wasn’t great ’cause first-time sex isn’t always, but the like, his idea of sex is so boring or something that he was like, “Yeah!” And I was like (dissatisfied noise), so, I don’t know.
Masha: I think one of the things I find intimidating about lesbian sex is it feels like more work,
Masha: but part of that is it’s learning a new skill.
L: Yeah, because
M: I think it is more work too.
L: I think it’s more work.
L: But like I don’t think that that’s a, that’s not necessarily a bad thing, but like I think, I think it’s more work
M: (laughs) It is.
Masha: I think in my mind the analogy I would use is, so I love cooking and I hate baking ’cause cooking, I just do what I want and baking, there’s like, you have to do a thing in a certain order and it has to come out a certain way and I feel like having sex with men is cooking, you just, it doesn’t take much for it to be decent.
Masha: And with women I feel like
L: It’s baking.
Masha: it’s baking.
L: This is a really good analogy.
Masha: And I really don’t like baking. (laughs)
L: Well, okay two things are going on in my head, so, the first one is
Masha: But the pies are more delicious.
L: See, the first one is I’m immediately like you’re equating baking and sex with women and I’m just worried someone’s gonna get a yeast infection
L: is my first thought.
Masha: But that’s okay ’cause I can help them treat it.
L: Good plug.
L: So can I. We could do that together.
L: That sounded way creepier than it was supposed to.
M: If you have a yeast infection
M: contact Masha and Leigh.
L: Yep. We got you.
L: We can talk about why
Masha: We’re probably already on the phone.
L: We can talk about why it’s probably affecting your sex life way more than you’d like to think it is and also what things you can do, and I can tell you how to kill it all and kill everything in your body, and then Masha can tell you how to bring those things back
L: with probiotics.
Masha: I forgot that we weren’t live and I just checked my Instagram and I was like, “Why don’t I have any new followers yet?”
L: Oh my god. You’re hilarious.
L: Masha’s never
Masha: Am I not doing a good job? (laughs)
L: Masha’s never heard of podcasting before.
Masha: This is literally the first podcast I have ever been on. I’m new to LA.
L: Yeah, it’s the first podcast you’ve ever been on but it’s also like, you don’t listen to podcasts.
Masha: I don’t.
L: That’s important.
L: And we said
Masha: But I know they’re a thing (laughs)
L: (laughs) The other thing besides the yeast infection about the baking is I think (laughs) that there are ways to have sex with women that are super easy and ways with guys that are super complicated, right,
L: like some guys have a very specific way they can come and that’s like the only that that’ll work and they need you to do that thing and like, I don’t know, if a girl wanted to show up and be like, “Turn around, I’m gonna fuck you with a strap on,” that doesn’t take a lot of work. I could take a nap. I mean, I wouldn’t take a nap, but like, there are ways, I think, to have some kinds of sex where like they’re real low effort.
Masha: So here’s another thing, and this is a thing Leigh already knows about me, I have a hard time coming,
Masha: and so part of what’s reassuring to me and having sex with men is I can do a good job if they come, and so if I’m having sex with a woman who also has a hard time coming,
L: Masha’s making…
Masha: how do I translate that hand motion? (laughs)
M: Well I would like to think that, I don’t, but’s not true for everyone, though,
M: but I think a lot of communication happens with dating women,
M: and it might be a little easier to talk about it beforehand, so if you, but then again, like not everyone is doing that much talking before sex, so I don’t really know, but for me, I like to talk about stuff like that. But I tend to talk about sex even if it doesn’t mean I’m gonna have sex with them.
M: It will just come up and I’ll be like, “Oh, let’s talk about this.” And I mention it to people fairly easily that I don’t come easily at all,
M: and that to me it doesn’t really matter. I enjoy not coming
M: and I enjoy coming and I think that that takes away the pressure of people to just be like, “Oh, okay.”
M: If I’m enjoying it and we’re, you know, talking about what we’re doing and I’m telling you this feels good or you’re telling me that this feels good, then we’re having a good time, even if we don’t come,
M: it’s still fun.
L: Yeah, I used to have a much harder time coming from like oral sex and from things like that and I would do the thing where I would always explain
L: like ahead of time, like, “Oh, just so you know, I don’t usually come.”
L: “But like it’s nice. Go ahead.” But I did notice that was sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy
L: that like if I said like, “I don’t usually come,” then I’m definitely not gonna come.
L: So I don’t know, so I was about to say like maybe there’s an argument for not saying it, but I also know that if I’m doing something to someone, especially a woman, and I’m not sure that I’m doing a great job
L: or it’s the first time and she’s like, “Hey, by the way, this is great but I usually don’t come.”
L: Or, “I usually don’t come with people.” That definitely is a relief.
L: I’m like, “Okay.” (sighs in relief)
M: Yeah, see, I don’t know, telling someone like in the moment when you’re in bed with them or something, I think that might change the mood. But I tend to like kind of to talk about it way in advance, but
M: then I also can’t assume that everyone talks about sex as easily as I do because, you know, like what we do and everything so
M: I was gonna say something else and I forgot ’cause I think that this weed…
L: Do you feel it?
M: Yes. Oh, and I was gonna say that I say that I don’t come easily, but that’s really not true because my partner knows a way to make me come every time so like I think there’s
L: Do you pass that onto other people?
Masha: She has the cheat codes.
M: And it’s so easy
M: so I don’t know why I think it’s so hard.
L: Like do you tell other people like the, like you don’t even have to say it, it’s like the thing your partner does?
L: But do you tell other people, this is a thing that works?
M: So then I don’t know why I feel like I don’t come easily.
M: Who knows? I can’t think of it right now ’cause this is my first time using the weed pen. (laughs)
L: Did you take more than one hit?
L: Okay. Yeah, I would, I would say don’t.
M: (laughs) Don’t do that.
L: Don’t do that.
M: But I think about like sucking someone’s dick is a lot of work to me.
M: So going down on someone like, licking someone’s clit or that area for that same amount of time is easier.
M: But like there are things to me that seem like more work.
Masha: I just feel like I just have so much data. Right? It’s like I’ve been
Masha: making whatever, I don’t know, omelets,
Masha: for 18 years.
M: So, wait, is
Masha: And like it’s hard if you’re just making omelets for the first time or you don’t do it that much, but if you’ve been doing it all the time, you’re just like
L: Blow jobs are omelets?
Masha: Blow jobs are omelets.
L: Okay, got it.
L: No, I hear that, although I will counter, because I kind of agree with you, but I will counter that if you have either like a pretty serious gag reflex, which I don’t, I don’t have one at all, (laughs) or you have TMJ,
L: which I do have, you know.
Masha: Or neck problems.
L: Uh huh. Do you know my tip for if you have TMJ and neck problems, for blowjobs?
Masha: Don’t do them?
L: Don’t do them.
L: No! You wanna lay on the side of the bed and lean your head back and then the person can stand over you,
L: so that the shape is like going down your throat,
Masha: Uh huh.
L: but you’re not having to like, you’re relaxing your jaw instead of like working your jaw.
Masha: Oh, that’s interesting.
M: And that sounds like even less work.
M: So I like that.
L: You’re lying down. They’re doing all the like.
L: No, you wanna have a little like hand signal if you do
L: have a pretty sensitive,
L: if you do have a pretty sensitive gag reflex, because nobody wants to like puke on someone’s dick when they’re head’s leaning off the side, you know.
Masha: I mean…
L: Or they do.
M: Or they do. I was just gonna say.
L: I don’t want to say no one wants to.
Masha: You don’t want to
L: You don’t want a surprise.
Masha: kink shame anyone.
L: And I get it. No kink shaming.
M: I’ve done it and it was hot, but I don’t usually like vomiting, but I liked it in that case.
L: I mean I have also done it, but
M: It was, it was strange. I don’t know. I liked it.
Masha: I’ve never done it.
L: You’ve never done it?
L: I only have a little bit. It wasn’t great.
M: But it was purposeful in my case.
L: Yeah, the gagging was, the gagging
L: is fine, but the, but the actual like vomiting was less fun. (laughs)
M: But also you can like suck someone’s dildo they’re wearing, which I think is super hot and still easier than a real dick. I don’t know why. Maybe it’s just my preference, but
Masha: I like that a real dick will be responsive so then you have feedback about
Masha: how it’s going.
L: Right. I mean you can like roleplay some feedback on like a dildo, like a strap-on I guess I’m saying more than just a dildo, but
M: Yeah and they could still move your head, I don’t know. Sex is so fun. There are lots of things you can do.
M: But, and I was gonna ask you when we were talking about this earlier: What do you think makes someone like a bad kisser or, I don’t, is it like chemistry? Is it the chemistry with someone or just some people…? ‘Cause I get what you’re saying about like the kissing like, what did you say, like they’re licking something?
L: Well there’s like, so okay for me there’s like two kinds of bad kissing. There’s just that like we can’t ever find a rhythm
L: or I’m doing some weird like extra kind of shit with my tongue, like but that feels like first kiss kind of stuff, you know, like some like young like, like I’m thinking…
Masha: Like way too much tongue
L: And like way too much of whatever.
Masha: or like outside of the mouth.
L: Yes, where if I feel like, like parts of my mouth are going to get chapped, like that’s no good.
L: But the other thing that I kind of noticed in the past that would happen sometimes when I kiss women but hasn’t happened as much lately thankfully is that some women kiss so soft that like and sweet and like really boring.
L: You know, and it’s like not like as a kiss that’s not nice,
L: you know, like as a first kiss, but as like…
Masha: But as like all the kisses.
L: But as making out, when there’s like no intensity increasing, like
Masha: Like, heat.
L: It’s like let me just touch my soft lips to your soft lips.
M: What if you grab their head and then like
M: push ’em against you?
L: I’m not really
M: You’re not into that?
L: a top. No! I’m into it, but I’m not really, I’m into someone doing it to me.
M: Oh, wow, see I don’t consider myself a top but I do that to people all the time.
L: Or not that, yeah, I guess that doesn’t make you a top, but that’s like top behavior.
M: No, but yeah, I get what you mean.
L: I will pull people in more, definitely.
L: But every now and then I’ve encountered that sort of like softly brushing lips thing, which, I don’t know.
L: It’s not for me. I like intense sensations even if they don’t have anything to do with like pain, although I like that too, like I just like strong feelings.
L: That’s what keeps me the most like present and grounded in sex, so if we’re doing like real soft stuff, then I’m like, I’m like not totally present.
L: I’m like spacing out.
M: I think I kiss too hard. I have to like remind myself to like be a little more gentle. I don’t know. (laughs)
L: I don’t know. I just, I just said that I was into that.
L: A lot of people are probably into that.
M: I know but I think it’s funny how like, you know, like everyone’s so different and stuff, so
M: But like I could talk about sex easily and be like, “Oh, I don’t come easily,” but it would be a lot harder for me to tell someone about kissing. I don’t know why.
L: Oh, like tell them you didn’t like the way they were kissing.
L: Uh huh.
M: I don’t know.
Masha: It feels very personal.
M: Yeah. Like that’s more personal than
Masha: Well ’cause it’s not personal about you. It feels personal about them.
M: True. Like, “I don’t come easily,” then it’s nothing to do with you, but if I said, “I actually don’t like the way you kiss.” (laughs)
Masha: So what are they supposed to do with that?
L: I mean, right? I feel like you can tell people a little- like you can guide someone a little bit, I don’t know. In my experience, if like, the kissing wasn’t good from the start, it never gets good.
Masha: I don’t know what I would do if someone told me that either they didn’t like my kissing or called me a bad kisser.
L: I would break up with them. (laughs)
Masha: I would jump off a bridge.
L: Awww. That was a little.
Masha: I wouldn’t, that seems cold and painful, but
L: It does.
M: I would cry.
Masha: What do you do with that?
L: I might cry also.
Masha: How do you ever kiss anyone ever again?
L: Well, wait, well see, here’s the thing, if somebody told me that now, at this point in my life
L: I would be like, “Well you know what? That’s just you.”
Masha: I would think they were wrong. (laughs)
L: I would think they were wrong too. (laughs)
M: (laughs) Sorry, you’re wrong.
Masha: I was trying to sound not like an asshole, but
L: No, well I would think I would be like, “Oh, this is where we go back to data collection.” I’m like, I’m pretty sure from the data I’ve collected that that is inaccurate.
Masha: Yeah. (laughs)
L: So I think it’s just you.
L: But like if somebody had told me that when I was like 16, then I would have gotten really drunk and cried for like four days.
L: If there are any teenagers listening
L: guide your
Masha: It gets better?
L: (laughs) It gets better. Guide your friends to better kissing but don’t tell them that they’re bad- Oh, god, I just had like (laughs) I just had a recovered memory about kiss shaming someone.
Masha: How do you get better at kissing?
L: I don’t know. Do you wanna hear the story?
L: The, one of the first, my first like, and I’m using the real, the word real in like so many quotations, my first “real” boyfriend – we were 14 – was a bad kisser
L: and he was like a jackhammer kisser, but then all the girls, like several girls who kissed him, we all called him that, and like he did a lot of really shady things to me, not consent shady, but shady, that now is not the time for, but I do feel really guilty about the fact that we like called him the jackhammer, like he found that out ’cause he kissed like this. (makes rapid kissing sounds)
L: Did you hear that sound? That was your ASMR for today.
Masha: My first boyfriend that I like really, really kissed was an amazing kisser, which feels weird to say ’cause we were 12, so it feels weird as a 34 year old woman calling a 12 year old a great kisser.
L: Well yeah but he was, you don’t want to kiss him now.
L: Even if you did want to miss him now, he would not be 12 so
Masha: (laughs) Right.
L: You don’t want to. Let’s make this very clear. Masha does not want to kiss 12 year olds.
Masha: No. I don’t.
Masha: But he was a great kisser and that was my first really kissing and did that just like set the bar so high?
L: Interesting. See, (laughs) my first boyfriend set the bar really low.
M: Yeah, my first kiss was oh, I was so grossed out about it. I was like ew, this feels disgusting. It’s so slippery.
L: And he wasn’t my first kiss, but my first kiss was also terrible. Just terrible. He like licked my face.
L: It was a, it was like a spin the bottle, seven minutes in heaven kind of situation.
L: And so like he wasn’t my boyfriend, but then we decided to like “date” for like a short time, but he definitely like licked the side of my face.
Masha: Surprisingly popular middle school move.
L: I mean, yeah. We were 12, so (laughs)
L: If there are any 12-year-olds listening
Masha: (laughs) It gets better.
L: Please stop listening to this podcast. It’s inappropriate.
M: Yeah, don’t
L: But if you do, don’t lick anyone’s face
L: unless they ask for it or you ask them first and they say yes.
Masha: Consent is sexy.
L: Consent is sexy.
Masha: I ended up having sex with that guy, my 6th-grade boyfriend, when I was 26 or 27.
L: Oh, really?
Masha: Yeah. So he, we dated in 6th grade. He moved out of the country for a year, and then in 8th grade, we used to just like hook up and make out and then I went away to high school.
L: Uh huh.
Masha: We did not keep in touch, and when I moved to California, it turned out he was living there, hanging out with my boyfriend from 7th grade. They were best friends. (laughs)
L: That’s amazing. Did you have a threesome? I feel like
Masha: We should have, but no.
L: I feel like you should have. I feel like that’s,
Masha: I was at a different time in my life.
L: that’s some erotic fanfic.
Masha: But we, we ended up having sex, and it was really good sex. I think the kissing was just indicative of, he was just on like a good sex trajectory.
L: Good for him.
L: Good for him. Shoutout to that guy.
L: Have you kissed girls?
L: Okay, I thought so.
M: I love kissing. I think I’m a little bit high.
L: I’m hungry.
Masha: This is on brand.
L: Yeah. Yeah. No, this is, this is what we do here.
M: You know what I was thinking, is like people don’t do those parties anymore, do they, where you like do the whole seven minutes in heaven or whatever.
L: Okay, yes. I went to a cuddle party like a year ago and we did spin the bottle
M: I wanna do that.
L: and it was really cute. It was actually really sweet and there was also a thing where you could like pick what you did, but it was a, it was like a clothes on situation, so it was either like
M: I love it.
L: either kissing, spanking, or like answering a question.
L: It was sweet. Like I remember it being really cute. I also remember how all of a sudden all these people who were real like open and like whatever about queerness and all these like queer women who were all like sex positive and whatever, the second like two hot guys kissed, we all were like, “Yeaaaah!”
L: in like a really gross way. (laughs)
L: So that happened, but yeah.
M: I wanna do that. I wanna have like a clothes on cuddle-kiss party.
L: It could definitely happen.
M: Someone was talking about it with me on cam about the wheel and I was like, they said it would be good for something like that.
M: And I was like, “Yes, it would.”
L: I think that’d be fun.
M: So yeah.
L: Do we have to invite boys?
Masha: Mm. Mm.
L: I’m in.
M: (laughs) You never have to invite boys.
Masha: They’ve been invited enough
L: (laughs) They have been invited enough.
Masha: in the history of
M: So when we have our cuddle-kiss party, we’ll let everyone know how it goes. Queers Next Door cuddle-kiss party.
L: I thought you were about to be like we’ll let you all know and I was like, “We’re not inviting everyone.”
L: Megan, that’s really awkward.
Masha: Yeah, you might now even be inviting me.
L: Oh, you’re invited.
Masha: It’s gonna be a real short list.
L: If you win our next giveaway… (laughs)
L: It’s a joke.
Masha: It’s not a bad idea.
L: It’s a very funny joke.
Masha: This is really the first time I’ve talked about my sexuality so openly and cohesively
Masha: with not-Leigh. Like I went from talking to one person to talking to…five thousand people? Maybe?
M: A million.
Masha: One day.
L: If you’re back listening to the archives in the future,
L: you know it’s a million.
Masha: Does the world still exist?
L: You’ve been to our live shows.
L: You’re buying all of our merch and Megan and I have quit our jobs.
M: Well how does it feel, having talked like that?
Masha: I think, so I mentioned, or I think we mentioned at the beginning that I’m pretty new to LA. I moved here six months ago and part of that, my new life here is that I spend a lot more time in the queer-poly-kink communities that Leigh is part of and so I’m around a lot more nonbinary sexuality and gender and dating styles than I ever have been before so this feels a lot less jarring
Masha: to formulate thoughts about and verbalize, but it’s still, it’s still a lot for a person who like has a long history of black-and-whiteness.
L: Yeah. Well, you know what? I’m proud of you.
L: But I am.
Masha: Thank you.
L: Thanks for coming on Masha.
Masha: It was truly terrible.
L: No, that’s great.
Masha: Would not do it again.
Masha: You guys are the worst.
L: We’ll never have a guest again.
M: Our one and only guest.
Masha: (laughs) No, it’s been great and thank you guys for having this resource and for sharing so much of yourselves and if I listened to podcasts,
Masha: this would definitely be the one (laughs) I would listen to.
M: Or you can read the transcripts if that’s easier.
Masha: Yeah, for people like me who have some sensory issues with podcasts, you can read the transcripts.
Masha: And if you don’t, you’re a bad friend.
L: You are a bad friend. Okay, thank you.
Masha: I’m your best bad friend.
L: You are.
M: Aww that was sweet. Oh, I liked what you said before we recorded about, what did you say, it was like you’re professional metamours or something?
Masha: Oh, yeah.
M: I liked that. That was cute.
L: So Masha and I, Masha and I like to consult and do some work together and have talked about doing work together in the future and obviously Megan and I work together so these two are, they’re metamours.
Masha: Mmhm. Professional
L: Pro metamours
Masha: That sounds sexual.
L: It does.
L: It does.
M: We have to wait for the party for that.
Masha: (laughs) Yeah. Can’t give it all away, Leigh.
L: Thanks for listening to Queers Next Door. We hope you enjoyed it. Be sure to follow, subscribe, and leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts.
M: If you like what we’re doing, join the Queers Next Door fanclub at patreon.com/qu